Spooner Row Message Board

Thank you, Julian, for highlighting the concerns of many villagers. I really appreciate you raising this with SNDC. Just so you are aware, 1-3 Station cottages gardens flood with very heavy rain. It's happened twice in the past two years, with a near miss on Christmas Eve.

an rather taciturn e mail sent is response to a rather self congratulatory e mail from South Norfolk

From: Julian Halls [mailto:julian.halls@talktalk.net]

Sent: 31 December 2020 09:34

To: jhalls@s-norfolk.gov.uk

Subject: FW: Members - Flooding Update

 Dear Hannah

 I have a number of issues here

 Firstly I did not receive this original e mail update until Alison replied to all. Why is that please?

 I have to say this is not the first time this has happened and can we check to make sure the member lists being used are full and complete

 I am not going to sugar coat this and fully appreciate that staff have been working flat out as best they can but there are lessons to be learned here for the immediate and long term future

 I have to say , several of the local residents in my immediate locale who were flooded attempted to call the helpline and simply could not get through. I had to e mail Johnathan who passed the message on to the help hub team for me.

 I had residents who were in dire need of sand bags and I have a list that I am compiling who on arrival at the nearest sand bag site , according to your list who could not gain access to the sand bags as the leisure centre is locked and , you could argue that it did not matter as they had all gone anyway. The very polite euphensism you used was ‘fully utilised’ i.e that is to say they had run out

 I complained to Johnathan asking who had made the decisions to re stock the sand bag piles at Diss and Long Stratton which to be brutally frank are locations which for us here in Wymondham are next to useless, and I suspect equally so for those in the east of the District. I have copied in Nick at his suggestion.

 We all saw the flooding pictures in Stratton and Pulham and I assure you it was not much better here with several houses flooded, mostly to a small degree but there are a number who are going to have to move out whilst repairs take place so suffered significant damage and in one case a car write off, and that is just those of which I am aware

 No deliveries of sand bags here as far as I am aware have taken place and I was not advised that this was even possible until I got your email , albeit via Alison until yesterday

 I have no doubt that staff were doing their best in very difficult circumstances for what was an exceptional event , yet another one ! but when you have residents on your patch who feel let down and on their own they get angry and I cannot blame them.

 Telling them it is down to them to resolve It is however property owners responsibility to buy and install flood protection products and sandbags to protect their properties does not exactly help.

 When the flooding has occurred because of blocked and or failure of culverts drains and rivers I can and do have significant sympathy for them and this was the case here in Spooner row and I am sure elsewhere.

 When you try and untangle who is responsible , Environment Agency, Highways, Land owners, Drainage boards the response is often a denial because of lack of resource, or a reluctant acceptance at best, with a promise to get to it when they can

 We need to sort this out and quickly and whilst I appreciate the sterling efforts made from my and my constituents perspective we as a council have failed

 Of course it is all too easy to shoot the messenger but we need a meeting , with all the agencies and affected members so we can resolve and identify the issues and get someone to take responsibility for maintenance of the known choke points in the villages so we can resolve this properly , rather than as seems to be the norm , sort it out once the disaster is over. Too little and too late

Julian Halls.

From: Hannah Ralph <HRalph@S-NORFOLK.GOV.UK>

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 4:45:11 PM

To: Members 2019 All <Members2019@S-NORFOLK.GOV.UK>; Broadland Members All <Councillors_XAllMembers@Broadland.gov.uk>

Cc: Trevor Holden <MDtoBDCandSNC@s-norfolk.gov.uk>

Subject: Members - Flooding Update

Dear Members,

As you will be aware, just before Christmas, significant rainfall occurred which caused flash floods across Norfolk, with areas in South Norfolk particularly badly affected.

 Our team has been working over the festive period, working closely with the Police and Fire Services, to provide support and assistance where needed to residents and businesses impacted by the flooding.

 The below provides an update on the activities to date and on-going support being provided.

 Support for residents

 Our Help Hub phone lines have been open through-out the Christmas period, including Christmas Day, to provide support to those affected by the flooding. We have supported by providing temporary accommodation for those in need and ensuring that residents have essential supplies, working closely with mutual aid groups and local volunteers. We have temporarily housed 14 households and taken over 350 calls from residents needing our help.

 We have also been providing sandbags to those properties requiring them and have received incredible support and assistance from Earsham Gravels and Norfolk’s 4x4 group to get these to those in need. Whilst our initial supply of sandbags was fully utilised, we are currently restocking the sand bag sites over the coming days, including a supply at the car park at the rear of Long Stratton Village Hall on Ipswich Road in Long Stratton. Details of South Norfolk sandbags sites can be found here - https://www.south-norfolk.gov.uk/residents/neighbourhood-issues/flooding-and-severe-weather/flooding-advice. Details of how to get sandbags in an flooding emergency in Broadland can be found here - https://www.broadland.gov.uk/info/200395/flood_and_water_management/57/sandbags . It is however property owners responsibility to buy and install flood protection products and sandbags to protect their properties. We will be monitoring the level of supplies at our sand bag sites and will provide updates to residents as required regarding stock levels.

 We have also been offering support for those residents requiring skips to clear damaged items, working alongside insurance companies, and are looking to provide additional assistance through our bulky collection service, where needed, to those requiring further help next week.

 If you are in contact with a resident requiring support as a result of the flooding please ask them to contact our Help Hub on 01508 533933. The phonelines will be open till 10pm on New Year’s Eve – after which there will be an answer phone system provided which will be checked daily. This is of course on top of our normal emergency out of hours service which is available to those who need urgent assistance throughout the holiday and weekend period. Phonelines will open as normal on Monday 4th January.

 Business Support

 We have also been contacting and liaising with businesses affected by the flooding, both in terms of the immediate emergency response, but also providing support and advice on longer term recovery and ensuring that businesses are aware of the support available to them. If you are aware of a business that has been impacted and requires support then please contact our Economic Development team. Please contact 0300 790 6290 or email businesssupport@s-norfolk.gov.uk

 Ongoing support

 Over the coming period work will continue on supporting street clearing where needed, and working with our County colleagues on a broader street and high-way clear up.

 We will continue to provide support to vulnerable residents and those businesses in need over the coming days and weeks.

 A huge thank you goes to all our staff, partners and volunteers who have supported our local residents and businesses during this difficult time.

 Hannah Ralph

Assistant Director Chief of Staff

t 01508 533942 e hralph@s-norfolk.gov.uk

Thank you Julian for highlighting these concerns to SNDC.

We live at 1 Cantley Villas and were flooded the early hours of Christmas Eve morning causing damage to the hallway, living room, office and kitchen. They are currently drying thanks to equipment but having had the damage assessed wood floors, doors, skirting will need to be ripped out and replaced and redecorated. We also lost furniture, some personal items and Christmas presents. 

We were kindly helped by our next door neighbours to pump some of the water away from the house which appeared to be coming from the 'ditch' at the front of the two new developments. Representatives from the developer Alfred Charles did not arrive until around 10.30am even though we are told they were first became aware of the issue at 2am. A pump and digger arrived after 11am to try and clear the water which remained at a high level. 

Since then they have done nothing about the blocked drain. I contacted them after the Bank Holiday on 28th December and was told they were aware of the situation and had already had a 'team' out on Christmas Eve (3 people) and nobody would be coming to sort out a permanent solution until after 4th Jan.  Their lack of urgency in dealing with this is very concerning considering the damage it appears to have caused. 

I also contacted DPS who are selling the properties on 28th Dec to let them know about the flood and that they may want to check them for damage. I don't believe anyone has been out to see them. 

For info I called the SNDC helpline on Boxing Day at 8.45am which was answered as I was concerned about reflooding because of reports of Storm Bella, particularly given the amount of water still remaining next and at the two dwellings. I explained I had been flooded on Christmas Eve and wanted to locate some sandbags and was told to call back on the main number at 9am! I called back and was told to check the website for the nearest locations with sandbags, which I did. I drove to Wymondham Leisure Centre which was locked. Thankfully our neighbours came to the rescue with bags of sand.

Thank you for this, Julian.

Can the GNLP and SNC planners be made aware of this and provided with the information which cannot be "lost" and ignored? The decision-makers should look very closely at the existing flood issues which are extensive and should be paramount in their choice of selected sites for new dwellings. For the decision-makers not to do so, it would be considered negligent and irresponsible. Spooner Row and the surrounding area is obviously not suitable for development in Local Plans.

Flooding is a common occurrence in Spooner Row now. It is not just the sudden downpours causing flash flooding but also general flooding caused to properties and fields from several days of moderate rain. 

Whether the Bay river was blocked or not, there are regular floodings throughout the village in most years. More rain is predicted with Global warming.

Guilers lane has been flooded for weeks now, before the Christmas Eve rain made it a lot worse. I, plus several others, have reported this to the council and nothing seems to have been done. It’s marked as completed when you try to re report this. All that’s happened is a sign has gone up just before the flood, that does not fix the problem, and would be more useful at the end of the road so people are aware before getting to the flood. Several cars/vans have been towed out over the last few days. i use this road several times a day for caring duties and it seems all requests to fix the problem are just being ignored. Can our local council escalate this? 

Spooner Row, Spooner Row, Spooner Row.

Why is this all about Spooner Row??? 

Suton again suffered horrendous flooding with several properties uninhabitable over Christmas. The Fire Service was needed to rescue inhabitants from their home.

The water runs unchecked off the fields, down Suton Street and into peoples houses. The water table rises so high because of non existant management of drainage in our village that water literally seeps through the floors of residents homes. 

This is not the first time, or the last time, that Suton has been flooded. Nothing was done the last time and nothing will be done this time. 

When will these issues be sorted and when will our Parish Coucil realise that they represent not just Spooner Row. 

The current list of affected properties and I am sure there are more is 18

8 have had serious flooding , resulting is insurance claims and are some are living upstairs and some are having to move out whilst  repairs are to take place. At least 4 of the serious flooding incidents are in Bunwell road

Dear Residents,

I think it is good that we air our views on this matter, but we need to sound off to the right people!

As one of you Councillors I would like to suggest we have a virtual meeting to discuss these issues. I am going to propose this at the next Community Council Meeting. 

This could be via a Zoom Meeting, any resident with a view would be welcomed..  However I am mindful that not all Residents have this facility, or maybe would prefer to make there views known by a telephone call or Email.

What I propose is that we put all views "into the mix" and then approach both Highways and NCC Flood and Water Management team.

You can contact me via Email.......  mrtynlemon@aol.com or you will find other methods on the Community Councils Website

Julian, 

Perhaps you are not recalling our telephone conversation as clearly as i do. 

My instinct and character assessment are as keen now as they were through 13 years of military service.

You are a politician and so are used to playing games within games within games, and as for your comment about being the only game in town. Well..... 

The reason i voted for a parish council was to hopefully try and get things done locally that affect us that Wymondham Town Council did'nt care about because they considered Suton too insignificant. I am not going to stay silent and let our Parish Council consider us the same.

I will pass your contact details on to those affected by the flooding and hopefully they will not be so sceptical and that they believe that you can prove a positive difference in this matter. 

Any help you or the council can provide to help prevent this happening again is appreciated. 

Many thanks to Councillor Robert Foster for presenting his proposal for the emergency sandbags and provision of sand in both Spooner Row and Suton.  What should have been provided by South Norfolk Council is coming from our own Community Council.  Thank you again.

Popularity contest?  What are you talking about or are you trying to infer something?

What a silly thing to say about it being a snide comment. I don't think it was at all. My main concern is that the ground is saturated and torrential rain is expected. Have we got enough sandbags?

I can't believe the Assistant Director of Chief of Staff at SNC wrote, "It is however property owners responsibility to buy and install flood protection products and sandbags to protect their properties." Cllr Julian Halls is right, this does not exactly help. Surely it is the district council's responsibility to support and supply people? Thank goodness the parish council has stepped up to provide the sandbags.Do we have enough? How do we access them?

Message removed.

Grateful if the postings can keep on the topic of this thread. 

Thank you

Webstation. 

-- Edited by webstation on Wednesday 20th of January 2021 04:56:33 PM

The Community Council is pleased to announce the arrival of 1600 Kgs of sand and 200 sandbags into Spooner Row. A further 800 Kgs of sand and sufficient sandbags will be available in Suton tomorrow.

Please visit our website (www.spoonerrow.cc) for further information.

Thank you very much for the sand and bags, we have now got protection ready for our House and the two adjoining neighbours.

Its great that the Community Council has been to provide this and we really appreciate it.

For your information we filled 27 sandbags half full each and this has used up the best part of one of the  large sand bags that were were delivered.

I watched the South Norfolk Council Scrutiny Committee Meeting this morning, as mentioned earlier by District Councillor Halls.

Interesting slide shown by Nick Howard of South Norfolk Council at 34 minutes in, slide titled "Parishes with 5 or more properties flooded". 

Spooner Row and Suton were not mentioned. 

So did we get bundled into Wymondham or was the number of houses flooded in Spooner Row and Suton less than 5?

If I may I will answer the questions in a single post

The you tube video of the Scrutiny flooding meeting is available to view by clicking on the link and my apologies for it being sent out so late

Many of the houses who have sand bags had sourced them themselves prior to the arrival of the general stock pile. One big bag has gone already but there remains two full bags with contact details for the small bags given above

I would ask however that you do not stock pile them 'just in case' because they are there for everyones use

-- Amended by webstation on Thursday 28th of January 2021 12:18:51 PM

👍

Having watched the very same video I would add that the member who spoke about new developments was correct.  The level of current regulation surrounding any major development means that such developments are highly unlikely to be the sole cause of significant flooding.

Here in Norfolk, all schemes should attenuate runoff to pre-development (green-field) runoff rate and volumes for all rainfall events up to and including the 1% annual probability (1:100 year) plus 40% climate change.

The use of filter strips and swales (which can be under-drained to allow for crossing points and maintain connectivity), filter drains, permeable surfaces, bio-retention areas, infiltration devices, and basins or ponds, all form part of a flood risk assessment.  Many of these options, including that of an attenuation pond formed part of the development application for the new houses on Bunwell Road.  These houses did not flood or come close to flooding in December.

Significant runoff is far more likely to originate from established development.  Houses built well before the existence of regulations covering runoff and surface water.  Take for example the recent planning legislation that means that any new driveway over 5m2 must provide a drainage system for the water to run to a permeable area. If it doesn’t, then you will need to get planning permission.  How many houses in this village have a hard-surfaced driveway that if built today would fail this test?  Ditches filled in or piped with inferior diameter pipe.  Driveways paved or tarmaced.  The state of nearby culverts ignored and ditches not maintained. 

The reasons for excess water events or flash floods impacting on individual properties are often many and frequently found to be much closer to home.

Retired Civil Engineer, with a continued interest in the environmental sciences.

I do not wish to know your profession, as I doubt you have one.

These houses did not flood or come close to flooding in December. see the post above 

Whilst this is true the run off from the properties in Bunwell road, and the associated hard landscaping which do not hold up water as land would ,  enter into an attenuation pond at the rear, which rapidly filled up. The pond feeds into the beck /ditch at the rear which now full, discharged its water into and onto the road and six properties in Bunwell road further down were flooded.  

The fact that the ditches were not adequately maintained is a point well made but to me it is very clear that the development in Bunwell road was contributory, and I personally  believe any new developments in the village will come with this burden 

As described by Julian halls for Bunwell Road, there is a similar scenario likely to happen at School Lane. The seven new properties yet to be built will be on ground that regularly becomes saturated. There will be an attenuation pond installed directly opposite an area that regularly floods and this includes the adjacent highway. The new-builds are to be elevated by 30cm in recognition of the increased flood risk but no such protection for existing properties opposite. Ditches and underground drains to the river are blocked. Unbelievably this development now has a certificate of lawfulness, with planning permission from the District Council. It was also included in the Council's Local Plan where residents on many occasions lodged their concerns on the flood problems during the public consultations (plus other safety issues), yet it was "carefully selected" as a suitable site for development (with nothing resolved).

Sorry Lynn but the majority of posters will not know who you are or where you live, so showing a picture of a grass field with a water on it is just that, a grass field with water on it.

Where was the picture taken from and when?

There were indeed 6. Under GPDR rules I cannot name them without specific approval from the same and two did not get water inside but their septic tanks were completely compromised and their land was flooded to the their front door. You named 3 so it is easy to work out the fourth one which suffered but I will obey the rules.

There was also one property in Queens street where their ground floor was completely wiped out AGAIN just metres downstream

It is very curious here how any suggestion that further building on land underpinned by baulk clay and subject to flooding, see the EA maps, is stupid to say the least, gets very angry and questioning responses from those who do not flood.  

Attenuation ponds fill ( rapidly) and simply move the water on. As explained previously , please read my post, I acknowleged that the ditch was most probably not well maintained which caused the water to back up but modern climate change measures are all about restricting water flow into such ditches and streams ( leaky dams ) but as we live on flat land we are left with a need for ever bigger attenuation ponds with high weirs to achieve the same effect. Developers do not want to build such ponds as it impacts on their profits as they are restricted as to how many houses they can build as a consequence. Water flowing off the field happened before the houses were built and as Lynn says , hard surfaces rapidly move water on. Land slows that down and so the answer is not to build the houses in the first place, but of course, if my house does not flood why should I worry ....

My job is to think of the wider picture and the potential impacts for the whole community and I make no apologies if that upsets some more than others, who may have their own agenda here. I also have good reason to think that some addresses that are being given here on the forum are not entirely accurate. 

Why has this post been edited?  Removing what was clearly location data seems a bit over the top.

Has the moderator been asked to do this by District Councillor Halls?

So is this website going to remove any reference to a location moving forward?  If yes you need to removing the pictures at the start of this thread because they are privately owned fields and publication has confirmed their location and I very much doubt the poster got permission to post them.

(Please do not include the names of private residences without permission, they will be removed. Councillor Halls is not involved in the running of this website or message board.

Thank you,

Webstation)

-- Edited by webstation on Tuesday 9th of February 2021 11:10:31 AM

There have been several 'call for sites' applications registered in Spooner row and Suton and a massive proposal which links through to Silfield from Suton asking for hundreds of houses .

They are are under consideration by the planners at South Norflok under the reg Planning committee , a committee which I sit on

It is clear that many sites will be rejected but the final decision as to what moves forward, has yet to be made and for time being I am not allowed to share with you , I assume so we , as a council, can decide on the final list .

It is therefore wrong to suggest that nothing is in the pipeline

Climate change has been taken into account , which is why we now have attenuation ponds which are much bigger than they ever were but in my humble view, all they do is move the problem downstream which is not exactly neighbourly.

The big development at Williams Park already adds to the water load coming down suton lane and rapidly fills the Bays river at the suton street corner , before it literally does a 180 and goes into the Bays river leading back into Wymondham. This, not surprisingly blocks the feeder ditches which break their banks  and in turn flood the properties at the bottom end of suton street . This water load , as the development progresses will only get quicker because of the hard surfaces associated with building houses, shops etc.

The Bays river in Spooner row , although I accept there is some debate as to where the river starts, also enters the waterway at the Suton street corner and adds to  the volume of water  it has to cope with. 

TWICE in the last four years the properties in Suton street have been severely damaged and this will only get worse. This is a matter of public record but I do get the impression sometimes that I am talking to deaf ears when it comes to approvals.

Who ever you are you are wrong

It is has run down the road for a long time and regularly flooded.

MY point is which you seemed determined to ignore is that the hard surfacing of new builds will speed up the run off from the field where the development is taking place

The land at Gonville hall is above the level of the road and has its own pond which drains down the lane leading from the hall. Get your facts straight.

The development at the Abbey estate correctly named as Westgate gardens drains the other way down to Tolls meadow

The vote regarding the cemetery , which INCIDENTALLY is completely irrelevant to this discussion was linked to the Williams Park development as asweetner to remove WTC objections which was approved on the nod after South Norfolk removed their original objection. I abstained I believe as it was going to happen anyway and Wymondham needed and do need a new cemetery.

I find the tone and manner of your posts as both aggressive and offensive to say nothing of being wrong and it is almost as though you want  developments to take place and for the flooding to get worse

Finally, you might like to know that I asked whether the developer was going to put in a drain across and under the road from the large field where the development is taking place from a pond they plan  to put in, to directly connect to the river, to stop the water running down the road. I was given a verbal  assurance there would be one but as we know developers have a habit of ignoring written down promises let alone verbal ones. 

Getting back on the subject of the causes of flooding, I'd have thought the best person to understand the issues would be the local district councillor Julian Halls. Why not just back him and stop promoting development, which only a minority in our communities are in favour of. Probably those in favour have vested interests and live in homes unlikely to flood.