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julian halls

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Parish Council?? (Parish Proposals)
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Without wishing to sound controversial do you feel that you are getting value for money from your rates? Are you aware that  £73.39 ( Band D) of your rates , the 6th highest charge in the South Norfolk area of approx. 120 parishes is what you pay as a resident of your parish  because we come under the auspices of Wymondham Town and we are paying for all their services e.g. street lamps,  the Town clerk plus the offices. There is even a suggestion that they build a new one!!

You may not be aware  that there is a legal requirement that any parish which has more than 200 residents has to have it’s own Council, but South Norfolk appear to be ignoring this legal requirement for whatever reason.

The purpose of this message  is to raise the very obvious possibility that we might , via elected Councillors of our own, have our own decision making body so that our concerns and issues do not get ‘lost ‘ amongst  all the other matters  Wymondham Town Council  has to consider.

We will not be subservient to Wymondham, but we will  have our own voice which  we can feed directly into South Norfolk and to cap it all, the  cost to you as a rate payer is likely to be very much smaller than the £73 quoted above. The saving will vary in which band you are but it will be a saving.

Many of you may have a view and it my intention to send out a flyer asking for comments

Julian Halls 2 Chapel Loke  Julian.halls@talktalk.net

 



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SRR

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RE: Parish Council??
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If Spooner Row was a parish then perhaps we could have made a case to keep the signal box as a feature of the village - like Attleborough.  There are benefits for being part of Wymondham's parish as Cromwells Ward, but Wymondham is expanding at such a rate it will soon be the 'Borough of Wymondham' rather then an 'Historic Market Town'!

We were removed from the Wymondham Area Action Plan to become a standalone Service Village of Norwich - without an explanation.  How can Wymondham Town Council (our parish council) make development plans for its whole parish when part of the parish i.e. Spooner Row is not included? SN Council quietly made this decision and our Ward Councillors made a Formal Request for them to provide us with a Special Meeting to explain things, but they declined; and Wymondham can't help us, as we are not included in their Area Action Plan - where does Spooner Row stand?  All other villages classified as a 'Service Village' by SN Council are a parish village in their own right - its only Spooner Row who is out on a limb within South Norfolk. Is this legal? All of this will be included as part of the District Council's LDF Document which will need to be authorised by the Government's Inspector early next year - I wonder if the Inspector will notice this?

If Spooner Row was to become its own parish, would there be enough local people willing to become a parish councillor? What about Suton and Wattlefield? for traditionally these three villages have been included together, hence the name of the village hall.  

This is a tricky one.  I like being part of Wymondham parish but I don't like the way the District Council can just remove us from the rest of the parish for no apparent reason when important issues are at hand - issues that will affect people. It is not democratic and is it legal? Perhaps it is time to reconsider our position. 



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Anonymous

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Spooner Row is a rural village paying town rates.  Spooner Row has few facilities because it is a rural village - there should be a council tax concession here.  Wymondham Town Council own and maintain the village Recreation Ground, how will it work if Spooner Row is a Parish? The Recreation Ground was purchased using our rates decades ago, would the Town Council try and sell us our own field?



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Anonymous

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You say the District Councillors might not be happy.  Well our District Councillor is in the EDP this week (12 Sept 2012) for breach of council code of conduct at Wymondham with a planning matter.  I'm not happy with him!



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Anonymous

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Parish councils have very little power.  It's the District Councils that have the power for making decisions that affect people.  The way SNC continually show total disregard to residents on several issues, such as Spooner Row not having parish representation when allocating us as a separate Norwich Service Village by excluding us from the Wym Area Action Plan.  They don't ask, or explain themselves, they just do.  Having a parish council may reduce the precept costs but in terms of democracy and fairness, nothing will change as SNC don't give a hoot about parish councils.  For example, they totally ignored the parish of Wymondham's objection to the gypsy site planning applicaton.  I am fed up with SNC treating us like serfs - in fact, I think they enjoy it - having the power to do just what they want.

A democracy involves those in charge to be accountable and work on behalf of the community. A medieval feudal system enables those in charge to do just what they want!!



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julian Halls

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I will be shortly posting a notice through the doors of the Parishes of Spooner Row, Wattlefield and Suton ( with some help) which will bring to your attention a meeting to be held in the Village hall at 1930 on the 10th October to discuss this matter further.

If you want your say or have some questions to ask please let me know. The contact details will be given on the flyer but to cover all the bases the text of the flyer is reproduced here

Please do attend

Parish Council a possibility? Meeting 10th October 1930 Village hall

If you are happy to pay town rates and live in a parish, and continue to subsidise the rate payers of Wymondham Town – read no further.    If not, please read on

Are you aware that £73.39 ( Band D) of your rates , the 6th highest charge in the South Norfolk area  is what you pay as a resident  because we come under Wymondham Town.

The problem is historical, however, we can change it if we want to, but we must have a consensus to do so which is the point of this meeting.

If we can form our own Council, we will then have our own  decision making body  where ‘local’  concerns , planning apps and other issues can be passed directly onto South Norfolk.

If you have a view or have any questions to ask, please either let me know via the e mail address below, or attend the meeting where we will do our best to explain the process and make a note of your views.

If we have enough support we will go ahead with a legal petition but this is not a quick process

I intend to ask some of the District Councillors to attend but they might not be happy

Julian Halls 2 Chapel Loke  Julian.halls@talktalk.net

 



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Anonymous

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Julian, your comment of "It is a sad fact that what appears to be amedieval system seems to be operating. It is not quite that bad as we all have to lock up our daughters more especially on their wedding night", - well just give it time!.  I heard that the customary 'touch of the forelock' was being reintroduced in south Norfolk and proposed as part of the council's new policy, m'lord.



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julian halls

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Thank you for your comment re the fact that the District Council seem to do what they like , ignore the parish of Wymondham's ( they have the same power as a Parish save the need wish to elect a mayor) comments and the advice of their own officers, and their own Policy to allow the G and T site expansion.

It is a sad fact that what appears to be a medieval system seems to be operating. It is not quite that bad as we all have to lock up our daughters more especially on their wedding night, but it is true that vested interests seem to bring about some very odd decisions.

It is not for me to sepeculate as to why, but the need to change this has to be done by using the system, and if we can bring about establishing our own voice, for half as much as as it costs us now, then that has to be good and it might lead to representative changes, so our views and opinions can be heard, even if they do eventually get ignored because of Party politics.

That all said it is very much my personal view that party politics is not the place for local councils and that District Councils and the Councillors need to be totally independant. The more independants we get the better it has to be!



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julian Halls

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RE: Parish Council ? a possibilty first meeting notes
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Dear All Last night a number of residents met in the Village hall to discuss the possibilty of forming a Parish Council.

Herewith is a summary of the meeting at the outcomes which for the sake of brevity I have provided as bullet points

  • The general view was that this was a good idea and that there is a desire to move this forward
  • The view was also expressed that it would be better if all three parishes were included i.e.Wattlefield , Suton and Spooner Row
  • The due process, which once we have a properly consituted petition fully signed up by at least 50 % of the electorate ( a legal requirement) will take sometime once we have passed this onto the 'principal' authorty which is South Norfolk. They then have a year to carry out a Governance review and rather bizarrely ask the same question already asked, so it is very important to keep engagement in this process. Getting 50% is a big ask and will require canvassing people to ask that they sign up. They of course do not have to do so.
  • Possible 'problems' were briefly discussed, the playing field , ownership etc and the 3 street lamps we might have to maintain but otherwise , apart from some matters raised by ward Councillor John Turner, which I will talk about below, we could not think of any.  
  • The remit for doing this was one of better governance and taking control of our own destiny and as very clearly demonstrated by Diana Hockaday when she addressed the meeting, improved communication, which will lead to better representation which does not always happen now because of due process.
  • An e mail was John Turner was read out who queried the running costs, the playing field, and the need for some local guidance in the form of a clerk. John could not be in attendance. A PS from John was very supportive of this move
  • The cost of the precept ( the local Charge) was addressed by myself quoting local costs from nearby small parishes and even at half the current rate, we would potentially be one of the big parish spenders if the Council felt it needed to be. The playing field will require some research but it is very early days so way down the track.
  • The ward and District Councillor Neil Ward sent his apologies
  • Diana Hockaday addressed the meeting and outlined above, said the biggest plus here could be the improved communication. She outlined all the work she does for the parishes in repect to new level crossing, HGV routes and Speedwatch to mention just a few. Diana suggested that we visit an active small parish Council to see how they run
  • A brief discussion took place on what the Council might be called, as we can now use the term Neighbourhood and Community Council took place to allay any fears that this is a move for just one parish alone 
  • It was decided to set up a small steering group to work up a valid petition and that if possible this should consist of 6 members , 2 from each parish. Any volunteers?? This to decide on the area, name and discuss and anything we have not thought of yet, which might form part of the petition. I agreed to do some preparatory work for this using the guidance foe the National Association of Local Councils
  • Once done we will need some foot soldiers to go door knocking to get signatures  so more volunteers please 

If you have any firther comments please let me know either directly on julian.halls@talktalk.net or via this board BUT please be mindful that any comments are moderated AND that both friends and foe can read this board

Please watch this space for developments as there will probably be a separate post for the petition and my personal thanks must go to Peter and Isobel Harradine for their physical and financial support

Julian Halls

 



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Anonymous

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RE: Parish Council??
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Sounds like a meeting with some substance, unlike some of the council ones! You mention "problems" could this be looked into and maintained by our own villagers? Surely a farmer has a set of mowers he could put on the back of a tractor for the playing field or maybe one of the garden maintenence companies could offer to do it as their "bit for the community"? I think that people would be for this and would be willing to help if it reduced our charge to Wymondham and we could see the actual benefit ourselves.



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Julian Halls

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Apologies that it has all gone quiet but I have had a busy two weeks and another to come but hopefully I will be 'on stream' early next month, ( next week)

A mini update. I have at last the map for DT1 having had to visit South Norfolk so I could copy it! Apparently OS are very protective and I finally got some joy from a geniunely helpful Mr Yellop. Unfortunately the register of electors, which is required so we know who has signed and and who has not, is proving problematical. I can only get an edited copy, having paid a fee, but then I can attend South Norfolk to hand write in the missing names and view the full register, but I am not allowed to photocopy it.  This is not permitted even though the guidance on the proposed petition says I have to have the register in full, other regulations prevent me from getting a copy.

I think the word assinine comes to mind at this point, but I am trying to rack up the pressure with SNDC to see if they will allow this, given that it is a legitimate process. However I am already getting feedback to stall from SNDC given that a review is due  next year but as outlined previously, very few people indeed understand the Governance review process and simply chuck it in the bin when it comes through the door, and if you do that, nothing will change so we need to keep this in the spotlight to have any chance of a change happening.

I have had some good feedback from Wattlefield and some other proposed improvements to the draft petition which I have circulated, so once I am back on line I will try and pull together a working group for the next stage

regards Julian



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Anonymous

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I think you are misinformed: The playing field and the car park are owned by the Town Council for which the village hall paid for the maintenance from its own fund raising for many years (perhpas decades?).  The Charity Commission advised the village hall committee in 1999 that it was the Town Council's responsibility to pay these maintenance bills - this is what everyone pays rates for!  The Town Council actually owed the village hall lots of money for the maintenance up to 1999 - much of which had to be written off.  As far as I know, all the money which the Town Council has paid towards the village hall and towards the car park were from grants which any group is entitled to apply for when needing help - we were of course very grateful.  The Town Council does not pay for the running of the village hall - its a registered charity.  The Town Council upgraded ALL its play areas including the one at Spooner Row - we were not a special case.



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Anonymous

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Have you any plans to pay back all the money the town council contributed to the Village Hall, the playing field, the play area and the car park.



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Anonymous

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What a crazy thing to say. A town councillor perhaps? Would you thanks somebody because they took money from you against your will and then threw a little small change back at you? WTC have had many many thousands of pounds from this village and given only a fraction of it back, with the majority going to the pet projects of wymondham. If we kept all the money in the village, our playing field and hall would be way better than currently. Also remember that WTC have been almost totally ineffectual at preventing our village being very badly treated by the District Council, so lets ring in some changes. Nothing to lose, absolutely everything to gain. 



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Anonymous

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How are you going to ensure that the petition is a fair representation of local residents views without providing them with all with the for or against evedence. You have already come out in favour of the proposal so how can what you are doing be classed as impartial.



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Anonymous

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Did you not go to the meeting on 10th October to discuss about becoming a parish? Julian Halls organised the meeting and he has provided his email address on this thread.  If you are worried about this not being impartial then why don't you contact him to discuss further. A parish council here can only go ahead if there is enough support. 



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Anonymous

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How much would it cost to set up a Parish Council and what would the running costs be. How much would it cost to employ a clerk, deal with planning applications, purchase equipment for the playing field, maintaining the car park and the playing field. Who would hold all the files and look after the money. How many Councillors would sit on the proposed council.



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Anonymous

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In terms of Spooner Row’s local governance, it would make sense for it to become its own parish. In recent times, Spooner Row has been separated from the rest of Wymondham in several ways, eg:

 - Spooner Row was removed from the Wymondham Area Action Plan and no longer represented there as part of the parish.

 - At Norfolk County Council level, Spooner Row is not part of the ‘Wymondham Division’ but instead is part of ‘Forehoe Division’ which places Spooner Row with Mulbarton, Newton Flotman, Swainsthorpe, Bracan Ash, East Carleton and others. I would think that this separation does not enhance Wymondham’s governance of Spooner Row as a united parish.

  - Spooner Row pays a high precept for urban (Town) facilities but is very much a rural village. Spooner Row is similar to its neighbouring rural villages eg Besthorpe, Morley and Bunwell and has more in common with them.

 Next year the Boundary Commission is making changes to the Parliamentary Constituencies and there will be changes made in Norfolk, including Spooner Row (Cromwells Ward). This may be a good time for Spooner Row to change its parish status as well.

 There is a website for the Boundary Commissions Consultation and the revised proposals: http://consultation.boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/

 



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Anonymous

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The Boundary Commissons proposals have not gone through Parliament and are unlikely to do so. If you were part of the urban Wymondham AAP you would have to take a share of their housing allocations which could mean that you would probably end up having to take more houses than is suggested under the small village status.



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Anonymous

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we don't have small village status. We did have, but it was very quietly removed. We are now a norwich service village and anything goes (apparently). Good luck finding out any info from the council though. Impossible. I imagine its because they want to push through more houses without anyone having the faintest idea how to protest.



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Anonymous

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Anonymous wrote:

The Boundary Commissons proposals have not gone through Parliament and are unlikely to do so. If you were part of the urban Wymondham AAP you would have to take a share of their housing allocations which could mean that you would probably end up having to take more houses than is suggested under the small village status.

 If the Boundary Commissions proposals are unlikely to go through, why then is the Government paying out millions for this?



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julian Halls

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How much would it cost to set up a Parish Council and what would the running costs be. How much would it cost to employ a clerk, deal with planning applications, purchase equipment for the playing field, maintaining the car park and the playing field. Who would hold all the files and look after the money. How many Councillors would sit on the proposed council.

Thank you for this comment which I am happy to address in RED below and answer in the order you have asked

Minimal cost as elections set up and held at the same time as District or other elections.

Running costs minmal also but at say £5500 precept that is £ 22 precept per household as opposed to £70 as now. Morley is good camparison.

Clerk would only be employed part time and under contract to deal with Planning applications and the like meeting as required or once every 3 weeks to fit into the cycle

The field is in ownership of Wymondham Town ( WTC) although the ownership does not have to pass to the new Council as they will have no money to buy it ! WTC will have to manitain it for health and safety reasons but the School complicates matters and I am trying to get a definitive answer.

The files are held by the Clerk and the money by the bank

The minimum number of councillors is 5



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John Turner

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Point of detail to consider: A friend of mine is the Parish Clerk for a small Parish Council elsewhere in Norfolk. I asked her the other day whether it was essential for a Parish Clerk to be accredited.  She assured me that while the officers and members of "bigger" councils may tell you that it is essential, it is not. It is recommended, but not strictly a legal necessity.  The Parish Clerk does, understandably, need to have a good measure of common sense & organising ability, but accreditation is a nicety.  If the Clerk is an unpaid volunteer, clearly a good dose of willingness to give of one's time is also necessary.

 

 



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Anonymous

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Julian,

Does the Town Council really expect us to buy our own playing field? Surely not! The playing field was purchased from contributions made from rates paid by ALL residents within the parish of Wymondham many years ago. If Spooner Row is going to have its own parish then if it can't own and manage its own playing field, then its a bit of a non-starter. The playing field is within our part of the parish - why would the Town Council want to hold on to it?  If the Town Council insists on keeping it for itself, then who can stop the Council from selling it off to developers like they tried to do with the Kings Head Meadow playing field. If Spooner Row became a parish, then the Town Council would have no obligation to us regarding the future of our playing field/open space. 



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julian Halls

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The Playing field question has been partly replied to, but I am waiting for a response from the Town Clerk as to the current and future position.

One would like to think that the playing field would be gifted back to the parishes and we would then of course take on the maintenence, but there may of course be some legal clause from as far back as 1974 when our existing form of Local Govt came into being, that would apply.

I believe the town had to give its Offices to South Norfolk at that time,  who then immediately charged them rent for the privilege of using the same building!

So some very odd things did and could still happen including the Town selling the land as it stands, but let us hope someone engaged some common sense and put in a safeguard clause.

I accept the point regarding a parish Clerk not having to be qualified , but given the legal nightmare that Local Govt has become, a qualified individual would be sensible, but this is entirely the decision of the new councillors if and when they come into being. That said a part time clerk using the NALC scales would be entitled to about £9.00 an hour ( I can only find scales from 2009)  which assuming say 10 meetings and the need to write minutes, organise accounts etc might translate to 10 hours a month plus some travelling expenses so being generous about £1500 a year. Assuming a precept of £5500 that would give the council some change of £4000 a year to spend on the street lights, all 3 of them, the emptying of the dog bins, maintenence of the play equipment and field, plus hire of the Village hall ( remember it is a Charitable trust so has to charge) and anything else that I cannot think of but this would still leave some change for Village projects whatever they might be.

Julian

 



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julian halls

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An update for you all

 

I have asked for a meeting with South Norfolk to discuss the impending Governance review See the e mail at the bottom of this message.

 

Herewith is the reply which sounds reasonable and unless anyone has any really strong feelings about this or better still wants to attend as well please let me know. The attached document of 53 pages has not been enclosed, but has refrences to regulations which on first reading suggests any land owned by WTC would pass the new Council automatically  The message is from Alex Evans but marked from Julia !!

 

Hello Mr Halls, As I am sure you are aware the Police Commissioner Elections are taking place next week and I would be grateful if we could discuss this after these elections take place. I have no problem with meeting with you after the elections and if I may I will agree a meeting date with you once the elections are out of the way.

 

As for when the Governance Review will take place, my advice to members who would have to make the decision, would be after the County Council elections which will take place in early May 2013.

 

Be aware that any changes to boundaries, new parishes etc.etc. which take place in a Governance Review would only come into effect at the next District and Parish elections which will take place in May 2015.

 

With regard to your other questions may I suggest you read the enclosed document will will give you an idea of what needs to be done.

 

Kind Regards

 

 Julia Tovee-Galey AEA Cert
Electoral Services Team Leader
South Norfolk Council
Long Stratton
Norwich
NR15 2XE
01508 533692

jtovee@s-norfolk.gov.uk

 

 

From: Julian Halls [mailto:julian.halls@talktalk.net]
Sent: 06 November 2012 12:39
To: Julia Tovee
Subject: request for a meeting

Dear Julia

 

Conscious of the nasty things that Central Government is doing to Local Govt by stealth and being very mindful that you work very late sometimes , if sent times are correct for your e mails, I was wondering if it might be of considerable value if we can work together on the Governance review, given that there is a clear remit here within the parishes for a Governance change.

 

E mails can be very impersonal and a meeting face to face might be of value, if we can come some sort of agreement on the way forward, albeit that a petition signed will simply force a Governance review to be carried out a time when you might not be ready to do so.

 

Accordingly I was wondering whether I and my ‘partner in crime’ Peter Harradine could arrange a meeting to discuss this proposal with you bearing in mind the contradictory legal guidance we are all forced to work with and what we actually want to achieve.

 

The meeting would be very open, but to help I have outlined briefly what I would like to discuss.

 

1.       When might the Govt review take place in 2013?

2.       What influence we can legitimately apply, if any, to the Governance review paperwork so that it does not immediately get filed in the bin  by the receiver and nothing changes as a consequence? (Author of post requested this part to be omitted.  Webstation)

3.       How we might work together to make this process meaningful and get the local populace to engage in the manner intended, which I accept may result in no changes whatsoever?

4.       What, if any influence will the proposed boundary changes have on Cromwells ward and more specifically DT1 which could/ might b***er up the whole process?

 

A Thursday and a Friday are not good but any other day of the week would be fine and we of course would come to see you at Swan lane

 

Regards

 

Julian Halls



-- Edited by webstation on Thursday 8th of November 2012 11:51:49 PM



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Anonymous

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I see that two of the town councillors have already backed the plan for a seprate parish. How can they do this without first studying the costings. Surely we are stronger together. Are they just playing politics with this important subject.



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Anonymous

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If you read the text, the Town Councillors have been very careful to be neutral on this matter giving both pros and cons, but might have suffered from some frustration with some alleged editing of the last Town meetings minutes to put clear Tory spin on an issue, and sadly not for the first time.

Julian has already given some costings breakdown,  and as for' stronger together' is concerned, when quite clearly there is a  very unholy alliance between teh Conservatives at District and Town already working for there own Political agenda, I think suggesting some political influence is downright hypocritical.

What is clear is that we are paying TOWN rates ( Charges) for living in a VILLAGE. 

 



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Anonymous

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Who is censoring this site.

 

*This site is not censored but moderated. Most messages are approved but occasionally an unsuitable message (or part of) cannot be displayed.  Occasionally, I am asked to change things or omit text by the author of a post.

Please also note when posting a message on this site, that if any incorrect characters are entered in the CAPTCHA box (bottom, left hand side, under your posting) then your message will be lost in the ether and does not appear anywhere on this system. It will show this message at the top of the page " The key you entered did not match. Please enter a valid key."  You will need to try again. 

If the characters are entered correctly in the box, then it will say this at the top of the page, "Thank you for posting. Your comment is currently pending review by an administrator. Once it has been approved, it will be made visible to the entire forum."  The message can then be moderated.

Webstation*



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Anonymous

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I have heard that another independent councillor has just been elected onto Wymondham Town Council. People in Wymondham are getting fed up with all the party politics and meetings held behind closed doors eg the Kings Head Meadow fiasco. Parish councils should be about local issues affecting local people (the clue is in the name) not about keeping certain political parties happy when in control of local councils. Party politics should be kept for Westminster.



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